March 07, 2008
We're all Thieves
God has blessed me so incredibly much... with everything. I can't believe that I'm stupid enough to ever forget that. There are so many times when I wish. I hate that. The only thing I need to be wishing for is that I'm not going to screw up God's plan for me. Satan knows I'm materialistic and throws things at me all the time, and I am so quick to fall. I am sick of it though. Enough is enough. I'm through with my petty self. I'm through with stealing the glory from God. I'm through trying to hide it.
I can't be a thief any longer.
"God, help me to forget myself. Please renew my perspective." ¶ 2:32:00 AM
I can't be a thief any longer.
"God, help me to forget myself. Please renew my perspective." ¶ 2:32:00 AM
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you make a really good point. we don't mean to brag, but sometimes, as christians we think that we're somehow better...and in doing so, we're taking the glory from God and putting it ourselves...
when all we're supposed to do is reflect His majesty.
He's the only King i know who is understanding enough not to behead us for stealing His glory every once in a while...thank God for His mercy and grace! He understands that we're all screw ups and loves us anyway. i don't think i'll ever fully understand that...
p.s. seven days!!! :-D
when all we're supposed to do is reflect His majesty.
He's the only King i know who is understanding enough not to behead us for stealing His glory every once in a while...thank God for His mercy and grace! He understands that we're all screw ups and loves us anyway. i don't think i'll ever fully understand that...
p.s. seven days!!! :-D
Jeff, can I ask you a question about "God"? I left my religion at a really young age and...well something that has always bothered me is how people have come to accept that "God" is the one to determine the difference between right and wrong. My question is how?
They say so & so is good because thats what the book says and so & so is bad for the same reason. Which really never made any sense to me. If actions are right because God commands them, then anything God commanded would have been morally right.Therefore, it's possible that different actions would be right instead of the ones we are currently commanded to pursue.This makes “right” and “wrong,” morality as a whole, and even God's will seem arbitrary in a way that threatens to reduce these very concepts to absurdity and undermine our essential understanding of morality, and our conception of God as not just powerful but also Good. So, if you do not believe the will of God is arbitrary, you must accept that God commands certain actions and prohibits others because they are really right and wrong and God in His infinite wisdom knows this. However, this seems to suggest that right and wrong, and the standard for determining between the two are somehow distinct from or “outside” the will of God.
What are your thoughts?
They say so & so is good because thats what the book says and so & so is bad for the same reason. Which really never made any sense to me. If actions are right because God commands them, then anything God commanded would have been morally right.Therefore, it's possible that different actions would be right instead of the ones we are currently commanded to pursue.This makes “right” and “wrong,” morality as a whole, and even God's will seem arbitrary in a way that threatens to reduce these very concepts to absurdity and undermine our essential understanding of morality, and our conception of God as not just powerful but also Good. So, if you do not believe the will of God is arbitrary, you must accept that God commands certain actions and prohibits others because they are really right and wrong and God in His infinite wisdom knows this. However, this seems to suggest that right and wrong, and the standard for determining between the two are somehow distinct from or “outside” the will of God.
What are your thoughts?
# posted by 
: 3:19 PM
: 3:19 PM
Anonymous,
Your question -- What is "good" and why? -- is important, because by its answer, you will define how you live your life. This assumes, in good faith, that you desire to do good. Some people view good as simply "maximum pleasure", more commonly just called hedonism. This is not a particularly good definition of "good" though, is it? For we can see quickly that, say, what made Adolf Hitler happy -- killing Jews -- was most certainly not "good" for the Jews. Thus, we can safely say that goodness is not something so simple as merely chasing pleasure.
Plato tackles the question of goodness in his book Euthyphro. In it, he very eloquently asks the same question as you did: is some-good-thing intrinsically good and God merely recognizes it as being so, or is something good because God deems it so. If you are serious about exploring this question -- and it seems you are, which is commendable -- I highly recommend reading this book. It's philosophy, but it's surprisingly easy to read thanks to its conversational form.
Be careful to use proper reasoning as you break down this very-tough debated-for-centuries question. Your argument is this:
A. If God determines morality
B. Then morality could change.
C. Therefore God and morality are absurd and arbitrary.
In order to be logically coherent, A and B must necessitate C and here, they do not. Notice I'm not saying C is wrong. Indeed you could be right! But I am saying that this reasoning is faulty. The conclusion is a non sequitur because A /\ B != C
I agree, however, that morality cannot exist outside of God, because this would make God subservient to a higher standard. However, the other implication of this statement is that, apart from God, in an atheistic, evolutionary, naturalistic mindset, there is no objective morality either. Survival of the fittest.
There are some theories of morality that say morality is merely a social contract, but even these falter, because that certain cultures believe child-rape to be right does not mean child-rape IS right. Morality cannot simply be majority rules. Nor can it be utilitarian where the individual is always sacrificed for the greater good. (e.g. Killing everyone with AIDS so that no one else would ever get it. This would be wrong.)
I'll stop short from explicitly stating my personal views of morality's source, but I think that an astute, analytical reader could probably distill my beliefs.
I laud your questioning. Never stop asking questions. Press on towards Truth, Goodness and Beauty. They can be found. I'll say this too: they're interrelated and found together.
Hope this helps.
Your question -- What is "good" and why? -- is important, because by its answer, you will define how you live your life. This assumes, in good faith, that you desire to do good. Some people view good as simply "maximum pleasure", more commonly just called hedonism. This is not a particularly good definition of "good" though, is it? For we can see quickly that, say, what made Adolf Hitler happy -- killing Jews -- was most certainly not "good" for the Jews. Thus, we can safely say that goodness is not something so simple as merely chasing pleasure.
Plato tackles the question of goodness in his book Euthyphro. In it, he very eloquently asks the same question as you did: is some-good-thing intrinsically good and God merely recognizes it as being so, or is something good because God deems it so. If you are serious about exploring this question -- and it seems you are, which is commendable -- I highly recommend reading this book. It's philosophy, but it's surprisingly easy to read thanks to its conversational form.
Be careful to use proper reasoning as you break down this very-tough debated-for-centuries question. Your argument is this:
A. If God determines morality
B. Then morality could change.
C. Therefore God and morality are absurd and arbitrary.
In order to be logically coherent, A and B must necessitate C and here, they do not. Notice I'm not saying C is wrong. Indeed you could be right! But I am saying that this reasoning is faulty. The conclusion is a non sequitur because A /\ B != C
I agree, however, that morality cannot exist outside of God, because this would make God subservient to a higher standard. However, the other implication of this statement is that, apart from God, in an atheistic, evolutionary, naturalistic mindset, there is no objective morality either. Survival of the fittest.
There are some theories of morality that say morality is merely a social contract, but even these falter, because that certain cultures believe child-rape to be right does not mean child-rape IS right. Morality cannot simply be majority rules. Nor can it be utilitarian where the individual is always sacrificed for the greater good. (e.g. Killing everyone with AIDS so that no one else would ever get it. This would be wrong.)
I'll stop short from explicitly stating my personal views of morality's source, but I think that an astute, analytical reader could probably distill my beliefs.
I laud your questioning. Never stop asking questions. Press on towards Truth, Goodness and Beauty. They can be found. I'll say this too: they're interrelated and found together.
Hope this helps.
# posted by : 1:34 AM
: 1:34 AM
Ahhh, a philosophical discussion. May i suggest that instead of looking to ancient Greek philosophers for answers (which even they never found) we look to what God said about Himself in the only truly credible religious work from ancient times, that is, the Bible? I know that it may seem foolish to look back into "the book" you seem to esteem so lightly, but in your search for truth, you must start somewhere; why not start with a source that is at very least historically accurate and credible? Why not give the Bible another chance, read it, and consider what it really has to say?
As for your question, you start with the assumption that it is possible for God to have changed morality; it is not. Think about it for a moment. God is all-knowing (Isaiah 46:9-10, John 30:20), good in His very nature (Psalm 99:4-9) and unchanging (James 1:17). He could not change morality or His moral standards, anymore than He could change His nature and still be God. He is morality; He doesn't just make it up. "Right" and "wrong" are not outside of the will of God, they are not theoretical constructs made by God; it's not a list of "do's and don’ts" or "pursuits", it is the very essence of God. What are the greatest of the commandments? Matthew 22:37-39; love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love others like you love yourself, and you will be morally pure. Why? Because if you truly love God you will be like Him (morally pure) and if you love others as much as you love yourself you will do what pleases them and what will help them.
In conclusion, “right” and “wrong” are not constructs; God is “right” and anything that is contrary to His nature is “wrong”. The Bible takes it even a step further by calling those "wrongs" sin. In Romans 3:23 it says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." In Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death..." There is punishment for that sin. God cannot just let it be; sin offends His very nature. But God is also infinitely merciful (Ephesians 2:4-6) so He sent His Son, part of Himself (in ancient times to be the 'son of' meant 'to be equal with' or 'the same as'), Jesus Christ. Romans 6:23 continues to say, "...but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Jesus came and willingly took our punishment on the cross and paid for our sins, so that we don't have to. But, it is a gift, and as such you have the responsibility to take it, or to pay for your own sins yourself. Jesus is the only way to be free from our sin; that fact is stated over and over again in the Bible. Now it's up to you to make the choice to accept or reject the truth.
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As for your question, you start with the assumption that it is possible for God to have changed morality; it is not. Think about it for a moment. God is all-knowing (Isaiah 46:9-10, John 30:20), good in His very nature (Psalm 99:4-9) and unchanging (James 1:17). He could not change morality or His moral standards, anymore than He could change His nature and still be God. He is morality; He doesn't just make it up. "Right" and "wrong" are not outside of the will of God, they are not theoretical constructs made by God; it's not a list of "do's and don’ts" or "pursuits", it is the very essence of God. What are the greatest of the commandments? Matthew 22:37-39; love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love others like you love yourself, and you will be morally pure. Why? Because if you truly love God you will be like Him (morally pure) and if you love others as much as you love yourself you will do what pleases them and what will help them.
In conclusion, “right” and “wrong” are not constructs; God is “right” and anything that is contrary to His nature is “wrong”. The Bible takes it even a step further by calling those "wrongs" sin. In Romans 3:23 it says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." In Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death..." There is punishment for that sin. God cannot just let it be; sin offends His very nature. But God is also infinitely merciful (Ephesians 2:4-6) so He sent His Son, part of Himself (in ancient times to be the 'son of' meant 'to be equal with' or 'the same as'), Jesus Christ. Romans 6:23 continues to say, "...but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Jesus came and willingly took our punishment on the cross and paid for our sins, so that we don't have to. But, it is a gift, and as such you have the responsibility to take it, or to pay for your own sins yourself. Jesus is the only way to be free from our sin; that fact is stated over and over again in the Bible. Now it's up to you to make the choice to accept or reject the truth.
# posted by : 7:33 PM
: 7:33 PMSubscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
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